Responding to Jeff Cutler’s op-ed about the division between bloggers and journalists, where the community news reporter and corporate editor suggests the only definition of a journalist is one who attended journalism school and submits content to a newsroom editor for vetting, PR man Danny Brown comments:
The two mediums (while they can offer similar news) are different in one key respect (at least IMHO): journalists report facts, bloggers offer personal opinions on these facts.
While they can both enhance each other’s industry, I think it’s important to keep the two separate for the reason I mentioned.
Is this true? Newspapers report facts and blogs report opinions?
Hogwash.
I’d argue many newspapers (and mass media as a whole) drink their morning dose of coffee while curled next to their laptop reading the prior 12 hours’ of online content, much of which was churned by bloggers and other online journalists of text, image, audio, and video.
I’d also argue if newspapers report facts, it is unnecessary and a waste of time to convene a press conference and see attendees represent every print, TV, and radio publication existing on Planet Earth. Perhaps the fact is in the message and the opinions are generated by each media machine?
Is not one man’s fact another’s opinion?
When I read blog posts from syndicated journalists like Anita Bruzzese, who, like Jeff Cutler, offer 10 tips for bloggers to learn from journalists because the former are sloppy and the latter are trained in journalistic integrity, I raise a red flag and scream STOP!
However, I must pause and ask: Am I wrong?
Am I wrong to place bloggers and journalists in the same camp? Am I wrong to consider myself, not a blogger, but a writer, an online journalist? Am I wrong to be frustrated by those who decry my work as second-rate because I don’t have vocational training in how to write?
What do you think?
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Ari Herzog is an online media strategist and Newburyport City Councilor-Elect.
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I’m a journalist who job these days is primarily blogging about real estate. What’s that make me?
If “bloggers” mean non-traditionally trained content creators and “journalists” are those who are traditionally trained … all I can say is that there are good and bad bloggers and their are good and bad journalists.
The audience will eventually decide what kind/level of training — along with other factors such as independence and editing — they require for the news consumption.
Jon Lansner´s last blog post..Demand for O.C. homes above late 2005 actvity
Thanks for the mention, Ari, even if you deem my points to be “hogwash”.
Again, I would point to another key point that I made on Jeff’s post (which may still be awaiting authorization from the moderated comments section).
Journalists and news stories published by papers have been fact-checked before publication – this is a given for any respected media source. Many bloggers (not all, but many) simply post an opinion without going through due process and checking that the story is indeed correct.
Your point about a press conference is also slightly misplaced. Press conferences are usually held for two reasons – breaking news and reaction to breaking news. Just because one journalist or newspaper reported a story doesn’t mean it was widely reported to start with – hence the news conference to back up (or answer) any points raised. This doesn’t mean each “media machine” is offering their own take on the story – rather, they are getting the full facts from the horse’s mouth on what may have been reported previously. Again, something many bloggers fail to do.
If there is any other “proof” needed that bloggers and journalists are, essentially, different beasts, how many apologies and retractions have you seen from bloggers compared to similar numbers from newspaper when mistakes are made?
I’m not decrying the quality of blogging by any means – but there is a lot less recompense for poor blogging than there is for poor journalism, and that (to me) is the difference.
Danny Brown´s last blog post..How to Sell Twitter to a Client (Or Even Your Own Boss)
I believe the distinction between bloggers and “journalists” is becoming meaningless. Media is about communication and connections. I’m working on a blog post now on this topic but a quick observation.
The idea of authority, and that journalists have an edge based on training or some vetting process is based on the assumption that people are most concerned with accuracy. They are not. Accuracy was important in a one-way publishing world because it established a shared understanding of the issues. It made people feel connected to what was happening because they could trust they were being told the truth.
But that is not enough today. People want to be involved. They want connections and authenticity of interaction. The facts are not enough; context matters, but access is even more important. There is still a role for traditional journalism, but what people really want is to feel they are connected to what is going on…and blogs and other social media provide a way to do that that newspapers cannot.
Dave Atkins´s last blog post..Seven Things About Me
The trio of you are forcing me to think and rethink.
Jon: I’ve never understood why a journalist is someone who went to journalism school. Are the only venture capitalists those who attended business school? Are the only podcasters those who attended film school? I care less about training one has; if I learn something new or the content challenges or stimulates me, then that is a good thing.
Danny: When I wrote for a daily newspaper as their freelance correspondent covering two towns, I was never asked to submit sources. Fact-checking was never conducted. I dealt with fact-checking once in my life; when writing an assigned story for a medical trade journal. Valid points the rest of the way.
Dave: Wolf Blitzer and Anderson Cooper, to pick on CNN, have authority. I respect them for that. But accuracy? Involvement with the people on the other side of the tube? Nope.
The pursuit of truth is never ending. Journalist/newpaper stories are a part of the conversation, but there are always more facts and more points of view to get at the “truth” where truth is more than mere factual accuracy. Sometimes we need biased, passionate opinion to illuminate a path towards truth.
Dave Atkins´s last blog post..Share the Trail?
Blogs are real time non-academic content analyses from media consumers.
Corporate news is biased in favor of corporate interests.
Journalists, therefore, come with institutional bias. Bloggers come with their own biases, but at least they’re their own…
karlos´s last blog post..Defintion of the week: Brand
I was a reporter who didn’t attend journalism school, who attended a school without a journalism school entirely. I reported in different mediums. Many of my news stories could have fit into a news article template, a newspaper template, a blog template, a geo-coded brightkite template, a myspace update template, etc.
Typifying has more to do with tone than template. But, opinions and biases are congruent with all templates. Some so-called bloggers are unbiased, while some so-called journalists are biased. The real question is if biases and opinions downplay facts and decrease trustworthiness. And the answer differs between each reader.
I think you all are missing the biggest thing here: there are different types of journalists, and there are different types of bloggers.
So there is the local newspaper journalist who’s beat is the local government, and there’s Ari. You all try to stick to the facts of serious topics, for the most part. (Maybe Ari puts in a little extra opinion because he doesn’t have an editor sitting over his shoulder telling him to stick to “just the facts.”)
BUT there’s also the sex columnist for the whichever paper (a la Carrie Bradshaw in Sex and the City), and there’s the girls and I who blog over at Like, Oh My Blog. We tell stories, embellish a little and are mostly for entertainment. (Maybe we put in a little extra embellishment and tone down the sexiness because we’re classy like that.)
There are a lot of different kinds of writers out there. It does no good to stereotype anyone.
Emma´s last blog post..HO HO HOw ’bout some Christmas Movie Trivia??
First comment: Emma hits the nail squarely on the head.
Blogging is a description for an online medium of writing. How does blogging differ from a column in a newspaper or magazine? I don’t think it does. A blog has a byline. So does a column or an article in a newspaper. I believe a blogger can be a journalist and a journalist can be a blogger. Both are writers. Both are people. Either may have an editor. Either may report facts or add opinions,, may stick to “the news” or cover human interest. And either may change how they write based on the story.
Note that journalists do refer to what they write as a “story”.
My dictionary defines “journalist” as “a person who practices the occupation or profession of journalism.” (I love those circular definitions.) It defines journalism as ” the occupation of reporting, writing, editing, photographing, or broadcasting news or of conducting any news organization as a business.” So, journalism seems to imply an occupation (professional) but nothing in that definition implies that journalists always give you facts (and only facts) or that someone who is a blogger might not meet the definition of “journalist.”
It all comes down to who is doing the writing.
This is interesting but I really don’t see why it matters to anyone but maybe journalists who are too invested in their identities as journalists. I’m a career coach who blogs in support of my coaching practice. So even though I blog I never introduce myself as a blogger. But even identifying myself as a coach is limiting. I guess we all attach too much importance to what we do instead of being who we are.
Tom Volkar / Delightful Work´s last blog post..Pump Up Your Personal Power
Ooh, Vicki, I was agreeing with you about Emma until you brought up your dictionary.
See if the dictionary has a definition for the verb, “to tweet.” You link your Twitter profile to your above comment, so granted, you know what the verb means even if the dictionary fails to include it, right? Similarly, old definitions are… old.
I agree with Emma and have enjoyed reading the comments as much as the post itself — a lot!
I’m a writer/composer/director and my training in writing came from class in writing fiction, poetry, lyrics, music, theatre, and screenwriting. I myself a blogger trained in writing who doesn’t aspire to traditional media journalism.
I cover culture mostly on my blog and most of the journalists who write on culture seem to have a lot of training in journalism and no training in culture.
Music journalism tends to focus on the fashion of the band or a few lines of the worst lyrics rather than examining any of the basic components of music. Screen journalists tend to obsess over the director without any understanding of how the screenwriter, cinematographer, and set designers contribute to the collaborative art of film and television.
Ari – I hadn’t fully realized this until you commented but, I think that’s part of the problem. We are using old definitions. We’re saying “A Journalist (note the capital J) is a Professional Writer for a Newspaper or a News Magazine. A Journalist is Vetted and Edited and Responsible (and paid). A Journalist Reports the Facts”.
I seem to recall, not too long ago, reading that the definition of a journalist was someone who writes for “one of the following publications.”
Journalism is a relatively old word. People think they have a handle on what it means. Blogging is a new word. Worse than that, “blogging” is made-up word. It even sounds funny. Yikes!
The world is changing. In a few years, anyone who reads this article (or shall I call it a “post”?) will think we were silly to debate the question.
We wrote about this a few months ago. The difference between a journalist and a blogger has nothing to do with the content or the message and has everything to do with process. Any other distinction is endlessly circular. Bloggers do unbiased reporting, and journalists write opinion pieces. The difference is that blogging is solitary and journalism is collaborative. Journalism has copy flow. It has editors. It’s a team effort, which is reflected in the masthead of any newspaper or magazine. Each piece may only have a single byline, but a lot more than that went into it.
A blogger may have someone proof or approve their work, but this does not constitute copy flow or collaboration. If, however, a “blog” has an editorial team with assignments, back-and-forth revisions, and a copy flow/fact checking process, then is ceases to be blogging and becomes journalism. If a single author produced an entire newspaper on their own, it would not be journalism and it would not be blogging, because a blog implies an electronic form. It would mostly likely be considered a newsletter or ‘zine.
This is how journalists can also be bloggers. When they write for the paper or magazine and go thru the editorial process, it’s journalism. When they write as solitary authors into a blog, they’re blogging.
Max Gladwell´s last blog post..Stephen Colbert Weighs in on the Automotive Bailout
I wonder if this will still be a topic of conversation in five years’ time. With the transformation that is taking place across the publishing (and other) industries, these distinctions seem to be less relevant (though more passionately defended) than ever. Having said that, I like what “Max” said about process. They ought to know.
Ari,
Thanks for an interesting discussion. I just want to point out that I never said a “trained” journalist meant you had to go to journalism school. The business is full of very talented and dedicated people who never got journalism degrees.
What I meant by “trained” is someone who is dedicated to being fair and accurate and strives to uphold journalism’s best ideals. They work at perfecting and understanding the craft, whether it’s by reading books on the subject, working for various publications or putting in classroom time.
Are there great journalists? Sure. Are there bad journalists? Absolutely. But there are also good and bad bloggers. So see? We have more in common that one might think. When we put all the good stuff together, we might just come up with something that is truly great.
Anita Bruzzese´s last blog post..Does Your Career Tell The Right Story?
If you were to redefine the word, journalism, Vicki, what would you say?
Max, why must so-called journalism include a vetting editorial process? Says who? In that sense, a newspaper columnist whose words are not vetted for accuracy or attribution is not a journalist, no?
Thanks for the clarification, Anita. So let’s make some magic. Your skills and mine. And everyone else’s. Let’s create something.
Ari: This is the post we originally wrote on the topic: http://www.maxgladwell.com/2008/09/blogworld-2008-the-line-between-blogging-and-journalism/
Our point is that making distinctions between blogging and journalism is like choosing between the glass that’s half empty or half full. It’s an opinion. We then offered ways to make a consistent distinctions between each. That’s the key: consistency. A principle that can be universally applied.
If you focus on the content, medium, or message, you’re destined to run in circles trying to make any clear distinction between blogging and journalism. But let’s be clear about something. Blogging and journalism are the practices. Bloggers and journalists are the people. Blogging cannot be journalism and vice versa. That’s the case we’re making. But bloggers can be journalists and vice versa. That’s because the distinction, if there is one, comes down to the difference between a solitary and collaborative practice.
To your example, all newspaper columnists’ words are, as you say, “vetted”. In fact, even letters to the editor go thru a copy-flow process. Everything that makes it into print does. Just because a newspaper columnist is the sole author, that doesn’t mean that a team of editors, copy editors, and/or fact checkers didn’t collaborate in getting it into print. That’s why newspapers and magazines have mastheads. Every article has a byline, but full credit is shared by the editorial team.
But even if those words weren’t vetted, it’s not that that person wouldn’t be a journalist. It’s that the work or the practice would not be journalism. Because journalism implies a collaborative process that includes, among other things, copy flow. Being a journalist simply implies that you’ve participated in journalism.
Our background is actually in journalism. We consider ourselves journalists simply because we’ve experienced first hand what it takes for our copy to make its way into print. We’ve gone back and forth with editors on countless re-writes. We’ve proof-read our layouts and helped fact checkers to confirm accuracy. It can take months. In this way, blogging and journalism are as different as they are alike. Because when we finish a blog post, we just hit “Publish” and voila! Again, some blogs may have people proof-read for spelling, compliance, and grammatical errors, but that’s not what we consider process or copy flow…especially if you’ve actually experienced it.
Our point is that this is the only consistent way to make this distinction, assuming a distinction has to be made. By this reasoning, blogs that implement editorial process and copy flow cross over into journalism, regardless of what they write about. A newspaper that abandons editorial process and copy flow may not become blogging, but it’s certainly not journalism. Every other way to try to make this distinction amounts to opinion and certainly can’t be applied universally. At least none we’ve heard so far.
When it comes to reputation and trustworthiness as a source of news and information, though, neither practice has a monopoly. Because this has nothing to do with labels or the medium and everything to do with those who bestow that reputation and trust on that news source i.e. the readers. It doesn’t matter whether you’re a blog or newspaper, if you consistently write puff pieces about your advertisers or provide bad/inaccurate info, you’ll undermine your reputation and integrity. The National Enquirer is technically journalism; it’s just a shoddy form of it with zero journalistic integrity. And it has its blogging equivalents.
Max Gladwell´s last blog post..Stephen Colbert Weighs in on the Automotive Bailout
Ari,
Facts and opinions are distinct… in my opinion.
That said, good blogs can report facts, and good opinion is typically informed opinion – conclusions supported by facts.
Why do you care if you’re called a “journalist” or not? Does it matter, really? I would make a different distinction, perhaps: a journalist is someone who is paid to report on and write about news. A blogger is someone who does it because they can, but isn’t paid to do it. Is that why you want to be a journalist – because you’d like to get paid? In that case, as others have pointed out, there are professional qualifications you need to meet, and your employer might have expectations and processes you need to follow, with those expectations in place to protect the reputation of the employer as a branded news outlet of some sort.
Why not just keep on publishing your blog as what it is – informed opinion? Your informed opinion is quite valuable! Nobody is likely to pay you for writing it, however. They might pay you to consult with them – thats a different ball of wax though.
Here’s the comment I made to Max Gladwell’s article:
I’m still trying to work out my definition of “Juurnalism” but it doesn’t match much of what I see above [at http://www.maxgladwell.com/2008/09/blogworld-2008-the-line-between-blogging-and-journalism/
I’m particularly disturbed by green living’s comments “journalism is supposed to….” and “Bloggers are supposed to…”
If you mean “I suppose that’s how it is” I may agree with you. If you mean “Everyone supposes and that’s how it’s meant to be” I wholeheartedly disagree.
We’re adding too many opinions and connotations to the words. I guess I lean in the direction of blogging is a “medium for writing” just as newspaper reporting”is a medium for writing . Journalism is a _type_ of writing, just as poetry or novels are types of writing.
I believe that journalists can blog and bloggers can be journalists. Either can report facts. Either can discuss opinions.
I think we’re comparing grapefruit to grapes.
Max, the National Enquirer may beg to differ they are “shoddy” with “zero journalistic integrity,” but I hear what you’re saying. In the end, I feel whether one is a blogger or a journalist is semantics. We’re all using old terminology for new concepts. Even the term, “blogger,” is old; the blogger of 1998 is not the blogger of 2008.
Rich, as I’ve previously been paid to write print content, I consider what I do here and now an extension of then. A different medium, a different audience, a different vetting process, but the same relationship between my brain, my research, my keyboard, and my output. The only difference is there is no editor double-checking grammar and reinforcing or changing my suggested headline. Otherwise, it’s the same. Eh?
Grapefruits to grapes, eh, Vicki? Why not cucumbers to pickles? The cucumber is fresh and new; the pickle is flavored.
Ari: Semantics is the easy way out. It’s like saying “everything is relative”. The words don’t matter as much as the meaning.
Does the distinction between blogging and journalism matter? Does it get us anywhere? Not really. So maybe that’s what you’re saying, and we couldn’t agree more.
But it’s pretty clear to us that there is a distinction, and to the degree that people are interested to know about it, it matters. In our view, this distinction has nothing to do with fact- or opinion-based writing or the content or medium. It has nothing to do with getting paid for your writing or not. If there is one, the distinction cannot be arbitrary.
Editors do more than check grammar and re-write headlines. A masthead is more than a list of copy editors. Journalism is collaborative by definition. A piece of journalism reflects the efforts of a team, and the ultimate responsibility for that piece of journalism is not the author but the editor. When you’ve succumbed to the fatigue of copy flow, you’ll know what we’re talking about.
What we do at Max Gladwell is blogging. What we did for National Geographic Adventure and Powder magazine was journalism. We definitely prefer blogging. But we’ve also never been paid $3/word to blog. That’s a pretty big distinction.
Max Gladwell´s last blog post..The New Media Landscape: Newspapers, Journalism, and The Fourth Estate
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